Conversations in ten questions 92: Max Diakok (Compagnie Boukouso)

© Willy Vainqueur

Guadeloupean dancer and choreographer Max Diakok discovered the traditional dance form of Gwoka in 1978 while studying advanced judo. In the following years, Diakok studied modern jazz, modern ka, classical, and contemporary dance in Toulon, France, and worked with choreographers such as Paolo Campos, Germaine Acogny, Jean François Durouré, Pierre N'Doumbé, Christian Bourigault, and Norma Claire, as well as theater directors such as Luc Saint-Éloy and Jean Michel Martial of the Théâtre de l'Air Nouveau. In 1996, Diakok founded his own dance company, Compagnie Boukouso, in Saint-Denis, Paris. 

Keeping the search for new forms of movement in mind and eager to acquire other technical tools, Max Diakok continues to utilize the Gwoka movement vocabulary in his work, focusing primarily on contemporary dance, African dance, and body techniques such as yoga, buto, and contact. He was awarded the title of Knight of Arts and Letters in France in 2015. 

Max Diakok's company, Compagnie Boukouso, will perform the show "Masonn" at Zorlu PSM %100 Studio on September 25th, 2025, as part of the Istanbul Fringe Festival.

.What is the essence of performance in your opinion?

It is both a state of fullness and a state of emptiness. Fullness because the artist's inner being must contain essential baggage such as body awareness and the memory of diverse experiences. Emptiness is the ability to adapt, to be in the here and now without preconceived notions. 

This requires a holistic connection of oneself to oneself, to space, to music / time, as well as to potential partners.

This presence is achieved through the breath, which connects us to Energy, and through the grounding, which connects us to the earth. 

.Do you believe in the transformative power of art? How?

For me, art is a major tool for transformation. It is inseparable from increased self- knowledge. Knowledge of all the components of one's being, from the tangible body to the subtle energy that animates it, including thoughts and emotions.

Furthermore, artistic creation requires collaboration between the two minds. This self-knowledge is the foundation of self-esteem. Daring to speak artistically is taking the first step toward untying oneself from one's ties, whether familial or societal.

.When you are working on a piece, what sources inspire you? Do dreams play a role in your pieces?

The initial idea for a work can come from observing people's movements, the rhythm they create by walking or running, the geometry of their movement and the emotions it arouses in me. This first rough draft can be nourished by readings. As was the case in the creation of a piece entitled Depwofondis (a word inspired by the psalm De profundis) created in 2014, which questions the world and its relationship to time and invites us to decelerate and embark on an inner journey. After being inspired by the movements and expressions emerging from the metro or the street, I read The Conference of the Birds by the Persian poet Farid Al-Din Attar as well as the book In Praise of Walking by David Le Breton. These readings allowed me to develop the piece in the mode of an initiatory journey. Similarly, the piece Poulbwa! (Beware of termites!) is inspired by images related to consumer society, consumer addictions, and advertising.

On the other hand, the idea for my first play, Driv (Stroll), created in 1996, emerged from the frustrations I experienced as a newcomer to mainland France. It highlights the history of Guadeloupe, particularly its slave-owning past, and evokes characters such as the maroon slaves and the drum virtuoso Vélo. In this case, I drew inspiration from iconographic elements and the film Sankofa by Ethiopian director Haïle Gerima. 

As for Masonn, it was the media debates on migrants and the call by two Martinican writers (Patrick Chamoiseau and Edouard Glissant), When the Walls Fall, that triggered the process. This book was a response to the project to create a Ministry of National Identity.

Finally, whatever the source of inspiration, it always passes through a poetic filter. It's a phase of distancing through which I move beyond the first degree to imagine an allegorical language.

Dreams are therefore not one of my sources of inspiration, but daydreaming allows me to glimpse this poetic language.

.When do you decide to give a title to a piece you are working on if it already does not have one?

The title is usually the last thing to come. Often, a first title emerges during rehearsals, but the play evolves and becomes so defined that another title is imposed. The big problem is that the production needs as much data as possible to explore. Applications must be sent before the play is finalized, even before rehearsals have begun. In this case, we specify that it is a provisional title.

.Are there any artist or person whom you think influenced your art most? And if there is such an artist or person, who?

I can't say there's one artist in particular who has most influenced my art. 

However, from the very beginning, through the example of other elder artists, I received a kind of invitation to follow a path. And this path was a break with Western standards. It came through a theater troupe, the Théâtre du Cyclone, which explored a theatricality and gestures inspired by people of modest conditions and particularly by people from the countryside. 

There is also a musician, Gérard Lockel, the founding father of modern Gwoka, who had chosen to express himself using this atonal and modal scale inherited from our musical history since the deportation of slaves, and not based on the equal-tempered scale. Although in both cases it was an indirect influence, these examples helped me understand the necessity of aesthetic marronage so as not to become stuck in a universality conceived as a single norm that applies to everyone. 

This is not easy at the beginning of a career when you have to train and prove yourself. Much later, I had a revelation through Butoh dance, particularly the Sankaï Juku company of choreographer Ushio Amagatsu. Seeing his prostrate bodies, legs turned inward, I immediately felt the parallel with certain Gwoka dances.

.When you consider the current state of the world in every sense, what is the most important and urgent issue for you as an artist?

In many territories, people are facing major unrest. If not war, then the imminence or threat of it. Others are outright threatened by genocide. Add to this the climatic dangers weighing on our planet, the increase in neoliberal predation, the increase in precariousness, the decline of democracy, the rise of fascism. What can art do in the face of this state of affairs? Not much. However, art helps to sow seeds. And when these seeds grow, they help overturn old paradigms. 

One of the challenges is to resist the economic vultures, who are ready to turn art into an ordinary commodity. This is why it is necessary to create based on its authenticity and not on artificially created trends and needs. 

Furthermore, and this is the second challenge, I strongly believe in transmission. To spread beauty, to ensure that art, whatever it may be, is present everywhere, is to prepare the generations that will prepare tomorrow for an open imagination, far from any walls.

.If we're not mistaken, you blend Gwoka and hip-hop dance styles in your choreographic approach. Could you tell us about the origins of Gwoka as a dance style and your relationship with it?

I should point out that I'm not a hip-hop dancer. I wanted to experiment with a different but related dance style (especially in the footwork of house dance). Gwoka dance is in my DNA. 

What is Gwoka? 

It's both an Afro-Guadeloupean dance and music. It was inscribed on UNESCO's ICH (Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity) Representative List in 2014. To understand its origins, we have to go back to the 17th century, that is to say, to the deportation of African slaves to the Caribbean and Guadeloupe in particular. These different ethnic groups eventually created a common language, the Guadeloupean language (more commonly known as Creole), and a common music and dance style that would only take the name Gwoka much later. It was even in the 20th century that this name became widespread. Certainly, it is an expression of Afro-descendant origin, but its primary characteristic is to be an original creation even if it contains Kongo elements and elements close to West Africa. 

Gwoka has not only a rejoicing function.. 

Formely, it accompanied agricultural work. It ihas become an emblematic element of Guadeloupean identity. It carries with it a memory of resistance to dehumanization and deculturation. In the past, it was subject to prohibitions, denigration, and even self- denigration. It was in the 1970s that it became a weapon of identity brandished by the independence movement. 

Nowadays, it is present everywhere (except on French public television). It accompanies strikes and political protest movements. It can be adorned with a spirituak dimension. 

It is also present on stage or in venues dedicated to art: concerts, choreographic shows, plays, visual art performances, etc. 

Since my beginnings in choreographic composition, I have used it in contemporary forms. It is decontextualized. For me, it is not about reproducing its codes but rather about drawing inspiration from the bodily states it conveys, letting myself be traversed by an ancient memory while listening to my emotions, my inner rhythm, while remaining in a state of porosity in relation to the world. The same is true for the music that accompanies my dance. It can be diverted without the ostinato of the drums, or mix them with an electro-acoustic music.

.In Masonn (Walls), the final part of a trilogy devoted to contemporary alienation, you focus on the concept of otherness. Could you elaborate on how you approached this concept choreographically? 

Before discussing the modus operandi, I must point out that this theme of otherness is underpinned by concepts developed by the Martinican philosopher Edouard Glissant. 

 - Identity. To the essentialist conception of root identity, he prefers that of rhizome identity. The single root is the one that kills those around it, while the rhizome is the root that extends to meet other roots. 

- Relationship. This is a way of being in the world based on contact, exchange, and interdependence. It opposes this imposed Western universality. 

- Creolization: an unpredictable process of cultural contact in which no culture emerges intact, but in which something new is created (the Whole-World). 

What about the modus operandi? 

In the creative process, the gentle bodywork allowed them to tune into their bodily sensations. Then I invited them into my world by introducing them to gwoka. I then created an improvisational space in which they could revisit gwoka based on their individuality. I also asked them to share a sentence evoking their experience of relationships with others, in their own language, their heart language, the language of their country of residence, or the language of their parents. 

Choreographically, it took the following form. 

 - Each in their own cocoon of solitude (the showers). Circulation without real contact. 

- The play of shadows on the cyclos. The aim is to create an illusion in which the image of the dancer and the image of the monster are reflected in turn. 

- Dispelling fears. The playful dimension appears with a mirror effect between the partners. 

- What was playful shifts into a game of confrontation and then into martial duels. - Reconciliation, the journey to elsewhere and the walls. 

- The Whole-World

.What does ‘Fringe’ signify for you?

For me, "Fringe" is the frontier. It's the desire to go beyond borders, both stylistic and national borders. It's the step we must take to meet others. It's also about getting out of your comfort zone, not hesitating to step out of your routine. For us, this is all the more important as we live in a period of fear and hatred that is spreading like wildfire. 

.What would you like to say to the Istanbul Fringe audience? 

What I expect from the audience, whoever they are, is to welcome the show with complete innocence, to trust their feelings, not just their intellect. 

 I would like them to realize that they are as much a bearer of meaning as the choreographer. 

The other aspect that is important to me is the need to look and listen without preconceptions. This festival presents different styles, different imaginations. And it's a privilege to have access to this international artistic palette. 

Through diversality, humanity enters into polyphony. To borrow the image of an orchestra, harmony arises from the dialogue between instruments of diverse origins.

[The Turkish version of this interview was published on unlimited.]